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SHERMAN SKOLNICK INTERVIEW -- Sept. 2, 1994

Sherman Skolnick was interviewed on *Radio Free America*
(Shortwave, 5.810 mHz, mon-fri, 9 pm cst) on September 2, 1994.
Mr. Skolnick is a veteran investigative reporter from Chicago and
founder of the "Citizens' Committee to Clean Up the Courts" in
that city. Following is my transcription of that interview.
Host/Interviewer is Tom Valentine.

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[Awesome sounds of John Phillip Souza's "Stars and Stripes Forever"]

ANNOUNCER:
It's *Radio Free America*, the talk show for intelligent
Americans, with your host, Tom Valentine.

*Radio Free America* is brought to you by *The Spotlight* [CN --
Note: Throw mud here.] Call 1-800-522-6292 for your subscription.

And now, the newspaper that "tells it like it is" presents Tom
Valentine.


TOM VALENTINE:
Somebody sent me a thing that says, "Forget the Alamo. Remember
Waco." I don't know if Texans would go for that one! But we do,
must, remember Waco.

Hey everybody! Welcome back, to *Radio Free America*.

Right now we're going to remember something that... almost as bad
as Waco. Waco had 90 citizens killed by the feds, I believe. A
total of 90, with 4 federal officers killed. In the Inslaw case,
we have about 42 to 45 people killed! Surreptitiously. Quietly.
Controversially.

I am going to introduce those of you who are new to this show to
an old friend and old guest of *Radio Free America*. Every time
things seem to be slowing down, you just make a call to Chicago
and talk to the man who founded the uh, "Citizens for Clean Up
the Courts" [Citizens' Committee to Clean Up the Courts, here
also referred to as CCCC], the "Commission to Clean Up the
Courts". And that's Sherman Skolnick. And you bring him on, and
he is 24 hours a day, believe it or not, 24 hours a day that he
and his sources (they're all over the country) [are] digging into
the corruption that goes on in this country.

And I want to welcome you back to *Radio Free America*, Sherman.


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
...my pleasure to be on your show again, Tom.


VALENTINE:
Hey! How's your television show goin'? I understand you're still
one of the most popular things in Chicago...


SKOLNICK:
...public access channels here, and our Monday night show, which
is a non-commercial show, out-polls three of the commercial
channels. So some of the commercial TV stations in Chicago are
not happy with us!


VALENTINE:
Well they oughtta learn that the people are sick and tired of the
pablum and would like to get something genuine and something to
sink their teeth into and make them think! And that's what you're
doing.

Now, the reason you're talking today is that we talked in the
past about the Inslaw scandal and the cover up by the United
States government when they assigned the Inslaw investigation to
a "special counsel" and they named a federal judge that you are
very familiar with up in Chicago. And that's Judge Nicholas Bua
[pronounced BOO-ahh]. Correct?


SKOLNICK:
Yes. For those that may not be familiar with the Inslaw thing:
that was a super-duper software, designed originally to be used
to keep track of the caseloads of federal prosecutors. But it was
later modified and used so that, through satellites and others,
they keep track of people worldwide!


VALENTINE:
Yes. It's a great spy system and uh, oh just all kinds of good
things.


SKOLNICK:
Well it was given, secretly, to spy agencies all over the world:
the Iraqi secret police, the Israeli secret police, the Mossad,
Sweden, France...


VALENTINE:
Canada. The Canadian Royal Mounties.


SKOLNICK:
And the ones that *designed* the thing didn't know that, contrary
to their copyright, it was being sold or given away in violation
of law! *And* it was done by persons connected with the Justice
Department! [Unclear] the buyer of the original software, which
was designed (as I said) to keep track of federal prosecutors'
caseloads.


VALENTINE:
Good ol' Ronald Reagan outfit... Edwin Meese.


SKOLNICK:
But what happened was that in 1991, a federal grand jury was set
up in Chicago. And the special counsel to it was a recently
resigned federal district judge, Nicholas J. Bua. The Justice
Department put him up to do something which most of us this
afternoon would consider rather foolish -- and that was, for the
Justice Department to investigate themselves. [laughs] You know,
on the surface you could see that there is something wrong with
that.


VALENTINE:
Yes.


SKOLNICK:
And what happened is, they brought in witnesses from all over the
world...


VALENTINE:
All right, let me stop you right here and ask you: Is it true
that when you want something "fixed" and you need a good "fixer",
you can't do better than to go to the city of Chicago and get a
genuine "fixer"?


SKOLNICK:
[laughs] Well, I know what you're getting at, Tom: in other
words, if you want to "fix" a case. *Our* [CCCC] opinion is that
federal cases, federal litigation, is *transferred* from other
places in the United States to Chicago, because here is "the big
fix".


VALENTINE:
The *big* fix. Now. Is Judge Bua, is he kind of a rookie at this
sort of thing? He's never "fixed" anything before?


SKOLNICK:
Well, in the 1970s he was a state court judge, and he was given
the case that involved relatives of those that died in a plane
crash in Chicago, where, among others, 12 Watergate figures died.


VALENTINE:
We'll cover, we'll talk about that, too. My guest is Sherman
Skolnick. Sherman is the director of the Committee to Clean Up
the Courts. I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right. We are back, live. My guest is Sherman Skolnick of the
Committee to Clean Up the Courts, in Chicago. We're gonna be
discussing the Inslaw scandal.

Many Americans, I'm amazed, just don't understand that scandal.
But in a nutshell (Sherman, I don't want to spend a lot of time
on this, filling in so they have the background. I want to get to
the latest news. But) briefly, the Justice Department: It has
been proved, on the record, that the Justice Department *stole*
Inslaw from the Hamiltons.


SKOLNICK:
That's enforced their company, Inslaw, into bankruptcy. They made
what the layman would call a "counter claim" against the Justice
Department. And the bankruptcy judge made an extensive trial and
findings that there was deceit and fraud by the Justice
Department, in stealing this highly complicated software created
by the Hamiltons...


VALENTINE:
Yes. And it was converted by people high up in the Reagan
administration and friends of Ronald Reagan into a money maker
around the world.

Now Sherman, one other thing: One of the most... One of the *few*
still respected people in Washington would be Elliot Richardson.
Would you say that's true?


SKOLNICK:
Yeah. He was the former attorney general under Nixon, who was
forced out in what was known as the "Saturday Night Massacre" {1}
in October '73, when they were investigating the Nixon White
House. And Nixon "had their heads chopped off", so to speak.


VALENTINE:
Well Elliott Richardson is one of the few Washington insiders
that I would want to have and would actually listen to and would
believe 90 percent of what he says.


SKOLNICK:
Uh now he has been, he and his law associates, lawyer associates,
have been the attorneys for the Hamiltons -- the Inslaw company.


VALENTINE:
All right. He represents the people who were wronged by the
Justice Department.


SKOLNICK:
Right.


VALENTINE:
All right. Now when Judge Bua was called upon (we'll get back to
Bua and your years of experience with him later), when Judge Bua
was called upon to whitewash the...


SKOLNICK:
But he resigned as a federal district judge and he was appointed
by the Bush administration to, for the Justice Department to
investigate themselves. And he was the special counsel to a
special Inslaw federal grand jury in Chicago.


VALENTINE:
Yeah. The "fix" was in. O.K.


SKOLNICK:
We became very knowledgeable about it, because I and my
associates volunteered as paralegals to assist one of the grand
jury witnesses who was in Chicago in jail!


VALENTINE:
He was also a rather well-known fella and he'd been a guest on
this show. His name was Michael Riconosciuto.


SKOLNICK:
Right. Who claims that because he "fingered" the Justice
Department, they "framed" him.

We had four-and-a-half months debriefing him. And we found out so
much, that *we* were, we were supposed to be, ourselves,
witnesses before the grand jury.

And when the grand jury met, I and an associate of mine were
outside the grand jury's unmarked door while the forelady of the
jury was coming in. And this is not too well known, but every
U.S. citizen has the right to approach the foreperson of a grand
jury and offer testimony. You can't ask what they're doing behind
the unmarked door! But you can offer testimony.

And I did that, and Bua was there and *blocked* us, but then sat
us down and tried to "sweet talk" us for half an hour that we
should withdraw our charges that 41 witnesses had been murdered.
He promised us that between that point, which was November '92,
and the inauguration of the new President, Clinton, that he
didn't think there'd be any more witnesses that were "done in".


VALENTINE:
Now, you know, you've told this story on the show before, and I
always find it fascinating. I would guess that Nicholas J. Bua is
the kind of guy that *loves* a good challenge and a word game.
And he sat down there, face to face with you guys, knowing you're
worthy adversaries, and I bet he enjoyed it!


SKOLNICK:
For a half hour, outside the grand jury door, he sat there and
talked to us. Uh, saying... He made us a "social bet". He says,
"Not a business bet. A social bet." He says, "I bet you a
luncheon that between this date" (which was November 18th, I
believe. '92) "and inauguration day" (which was to be January
20th in '93) "that there would be no... there wouldn't be a 42nd
witness murdered."

And we held up a copy of the London paper and said, "Look at
this. Ian Stewart Sparrow has just been murdered. He was one of
your witnesses." And I says, "We have..." And you know a funny
thing?! We already had a lawsuit pending against Bua as a
defendant! And there's the defendant, sitting, talking with us,
trying to "sweet talk" us. And he says... I says, "Well the ones
I accused you in court of being involved in the murdering of the
witnesses is part of your FBI team, a Chicago FBI agent."

He says, "Yes. He's part of our team."

I said, "WELL WHAT ARE YOU DOIN' ABOUT IT!!" We have charged in
court that he's goin' around murdering the witnesses!"

He said, "I betcha that by January 20th there won't be any
witnesses."


VALENTINE:
There won't be any other murders? Or they're gonna "get" all the
witnesses?


SKOLNICK:
The point is, he issued his report stating that there was nothing
wrong with the Justice Department's use of Inslaw. That a key
witness that was murdered was actually a suicide -- Danny
Casolaro. And, in other words, he whitewashed the entire thing.
He entered an extensive report saying that, "There was no fraud.
There was no deceit." And that the Justice Department, in
investigating themselves, didn't find anything. [laughs] Well...


VALENTINE:
All right. What did you expect when it was sent to Chicago...


SKOLNICK:
Well wait a minute!


VALENTINE:
I've gotta take a break. But you remember what we're gonna wait a
minute on. We'll be right back.

My guest is Sherman Skolnick. I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio
Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

O.K.! We are back, live, and Sherman Skolnick is my guest!

And Sherman, you said, "Wait a minute," and so we did. We're
waiting a minute. What were you going to say?


SKOLNICK:
Well, in response to Bua's grand jury report, which he publicized
through the press -- he befriended some of the "news fakers" as
we call 'em, in Washington and a few other places.


VALENTINE:
Yes. The "news fakers" of Chicago didn't even *cover* that grand
jury hearing, by the way.


SKOLNICK:
Right. [laughs] We were the only journalists that were talking
about it, on our television show, during the whole time! The
*[Chicago] Tribune* and the rest of 'em pretended that nothing
was happening.

Elliott Richardson, the Inslaw attorney, filed a rebuttal to
Bua's report early in July of '93. Then a strange event occurred,
a week after the rebuttal: White House aide Vincent Foster, jr.
was found dead. *Now*, because of what happened thereafter, we
realize that there was a connection. Elliott Richardson then
filed, in addition to his rebuttal to Bua's grand jury report in
February of '94. And *there* is outlined that they have witnesses
whose names they're fearful of mentioning to the Justice
Department, because the witnesses would be murdered, like others.

*And*, Elliott Richardson contends that there is a *secret*
*unit* in the Justice Department, in a very... heavily secure
section, in with O.S.I., the Office of, uh... Strict, of uh...


VALENTINE:
Special Investigations.


SKOLNICK:
Right! Who are supposed to be "Nazi hunters".


VALENTINE:
Yes.


SKOLNICK:
But that these other ones are in that same section, and that
*they* *go* *around* *murdering* *witnesses*!


VALENTINE:
Now that's a hell of a thing! You've alleged that on this show,
and we have had Mike Fuller of Virginia and Washington, D.C.
allege it on that show, and a couple of others! But *now* Elliott
Richardson has alleged it in this...


SKOLNICK:
Yeah! And he said that he has witnesses in key positions that
confirm that. And that among others, that this, that the special
murder team, in the Justice Department, among those that they
murdered was Danny Casolaro, who was looking into the Inslaw
thing. And Casolaro, a journalist, was working on a book in which
he claimed the Inslaw thing was "The Octopus", that it was tied
in to the October Surprise, Iran-Contra, and numerous other
diabolical...


VALENTINE:
But especially BCCI! [Bank of Credit and Commerce International]


SKOLNICK:
Right.


VALENTINE:
Yes. We don't want to forget that one. We want the listeners to
all get that, those 3 letters, 4 letters, that's a 4 letter word:
BCCI.


SKOLNICK:
Right. The Bank of Credit and Commerce International. That's a
secret. By the way, I don't want to digress, but we did a program
recently on television for an hour, pointing out that BCCI,
contrary to what the press says, has *not* gone under! They are
operating under another name and they're buying out banks in
Chicago through their holding company, Pinnacle Bank Group, which
is tied in with Jimmy Carter's people which is where that BCCI
started from in the beginning! Bert Lance and those people.

And by the way, one of the reasons for what we believe is the
murder of Vincent Foster, jr., is that he and his law partner,
Hillary Rodham Clinton, arranged secretly for BCCI to have a
great presence in the United States. And evidently, Danny
Casolaro was on to that.

But getting back to Elliott Richardson's additional rebuttal to
Bua's grand jury report -- He said there's a secret unit in the
Justice Department, and *as* *a* *front*, they're operating
through 100 commercial companies, as a front. But their main
business is to go around murdering witnesses!

Now that is very interesting...


VALENTINE:
It *is*, because you said that many years ago.


SKOLNICK:
Yeah! And we brought a federal lawsuit against Bua, and his
colleagues in the courthouse bottled us up and wouldn't allow any
hearing. But we contended that there were, at that time, which is
the fall of '93, of '92, that there were 40, over 40 grand jury
witnesses murdered!

So I mean, what kind of a report could he [Bua] issue to the
grand jury if over 40 witnesses were murdered! I mean, the thing
is... It's outrageous! And...


VALENTINE:
Well it was a farce!


SKOLNICK:
Right! And we made it all a matter of record.

Now what's interesting *now* is, in Chicago, the papers here have
been covering an embezzlement scandal. The federally funded
Chicago Housing Authority [CHA], which builds buildings for poor
people to live in, you know?


VALENTINE:
The famous Robert Taylor Homes, Cabrini Green, and so forth.


SKOLNICK:
Right! Their pension fund, the CHA pension fund, has been
embezzled out of $12 million. That's been contended day after day
in the *Tribune* and the *Sun-Times* and so on.

What's interesting is, we found out that there's a grand jury in
*another* part of the country looking into a *tremendous* scam
involving hundreds of millions of dollars. And what do ya know??
The pension fund scam here, of the Chicago Housing Authority, is
a part of it. And this other grand jury is hearing testimony that
Nicholas J. Bua is involved.


VALENTINE:
Huh! O.K. My guest is Sherman Skolnick. And you just heard it:
right now, somewhere in the U.S., is a grand jury, and our judge
is involved.

We shall return. I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right. Sherman Skolnick of the Committee to Clean Up the
Courts in Chicago is my guest. And Sherman, tell everyone (before
we get back to this very exciting news item about Judge Bua being
somehow part of this pension fund rip-off, or at least being
alleged that at a grand jury hearing), um, tell us about your
telephone message service first. 'Cause a lot of people want to
hear what you've got to say, and you change those messages
several times a week.


SKOLNICK:
Right. We have a recorded, 5 minute message, which is a regular
phone call -- it's not an expensive call. You can call it at
night, for example, when it's cheaper. And it's 731-1100. And
that's Chicago, which is area code 312. 731-1100, in Chicago.


VALENTINE:
Right. You call up Chicago, area 312, 731-1100, any time of day,
around the clock, and you can listen to a recorded message. How
long is it usually, Sherman?


SKOLNICK:
Five minutes, and we change it 3 times a week. We've got
listeners [laughs] all the way from Hawaii to Maine to Puerto
Rico to Canada. It's a regular phone call, and we've been running
it...


VALENTINE:
Now you coulda run this as a 900 number years ago and probably
done all right. But you've kept it cheap for the folks.


SKOLNICK:
Right. It's a regular... It's just a regular long-distance call.


VALENTINE:
Very good.


SKOLNICK:
Now our current message is about Bua. But now here's the point!
In this pension fund case, people far away are being arrested,
with international connections. For example, there's a story in
the *Tribune*, August 26th, that mentions that there was a
character arrested in Fort Lauderdale [CN -- apparently named Mr.
Polichemi], who's got a $5 million home there, with banking
connections all over the world, including in Luxembourg. And that
he is reportedly involved in this pension fund rip-off in
Chicago.

*But*, what the *Tribune* and the rest of 'em do not mention is
that there's a grand jury *outside* of Chicago which is looking
into this and that apparently, Mr. Polichemi reportedly is in
some way connected with Bua! -- the former federal district judge
who went on to be the special counsel to the Inslaw grand jury.

Other things that the out-of-town grand jury reportedly is
hearing is that Bua originally was installed on the federal bench
through a shadowy character in California named George K. Pender
-- that's P-e-n-d-e-r.


VALENTINE:
That's a Reagan "Kitchen Cabinet" guy!


SKOLNICK:
Right. And Pender, according to documents that we [CCCC] have,
ran a company... He was the president, chairman, and director of
a company in Santa Monica, California, named First
Intercontinental Development Corp. And according to documents
from that company, here are the ones that were directors of
Pender's company. (And Pender is the one that's reportedly been
in with Bua.)

A director was Robert A. Maheu(sp?) [pronounced MAY-hoo], former
chief executive for Howard Hughes' operations. And Maheu has been
accused, in various books, as being a long-time CIA operative,
reportedly supervising assassins -- such as Chicago gangsters.


VALENTINE:
Yes, that's been reported in many books.


SKOLNICK:
Another senior vice-president, director, and chairman of the
investment committee of *that* company, was Robert Booth
Nickols(sp?) [pronounced NIK-kuls], who was Riconosciuto's former
business partner.


VALENTINE:
Yeah! And a *major* Inslaw player and possibly the man behind the
killing of Casolaro!


SKOLNICK:
Right. And Robert Booth Nickols uh, we confronted his former
business partner, Riconosciuto, who went straight into orbit when
he realized that we found out that Nickols apparently was
implicated in the New York World Trade Center bombing.


VALENTINE:
Who went through the roof? Mike Riconosciuto?


SKOLNICK:
Yes.


VALENTINE:
Oh-oh. Must have touched a nerve, huh?!


SKOLNICK:
We spent four-and-a-half months interviewing him and he usually
kept his cool. But when we confronted him about Nickols being
possibly *involved*... Well, we reached him on the phone,
actually, after that World Trade Center bombing, and he *shouted*
at us that we must *get* *off* *that* *case*!

So we think there's a connection there.

Another director of Pender's company was Clint W. Murchison, jr.,
a close pal of Nixon. And there are some that claim that
Murchison was involved in the JFK plot.


VALENTINE:
Yeah, I've heard that too. Don't give it a lot of credence, but
I've heard it.


SKOLNICK:
Yeah, right. Now what's interesting is that Pender reportedly
helped install Bua in Chicago as a federal district judge. One of
the first things that Bua did as a judge was to cover up the Alan
Dorfman case. Alan Dorfman was the wizard of the Teamster's
pension fund. And he was murdered just after the BBC interviewed
Dorfman about his CIA connections, that is, running CIA money
through the Teamster's pension fund. We [CCCC] were the only ones
that worked on the story, yet there was a BBC *crew* here in
Chicago. The BBC did not go with [televise/broadcast] the
interview. We're the only ones that talk about it.


VALENTINE:
That's right, remember? You had that BBC fella come on my show!


SKOLNICK:
Yeah, right. O.K. *Now*, a case involving the estate of Dorfman
ended up with Bua. And he covered it up.


VALENTINE:
That's his job, obviously! He was put in there by the powerful
Reagan bunch and whoever's behind them...


SKOLNICK:
O.K. But now, here: this grand jury in another part of the
country is reportedly hearing testimony that Bua was the
"courier" or "bag man" for reported graft by a major defense
contractor to the Reagan White House and the Bush White House.
That was the Northrop company.

The head of Northrop, according to previous stories, already had
been found guilty of certain misconduct regarding the Defense
Department. But here is Bua, apparently involved in some way with
Northrop, corrupting the Reagan and Bush White House.

In some way it's tied in with Pender and this overall thing.
Now...


VALENTINE:
This is not what we normally mean when we say a "Washington
insider".


SKOLNICK:
Right. Now the one that has just been arrested (and I think he's
gonna be brought back to Chicago from Fort Lauderdale) was Joseph
Polichemi. P-o-l-i-c-h-e-m-i. And according to authorities in the
county down there in Florida, he's got the largest home in the
county, assessed -- they got a picture of it in the *Tribune* --
assessed at $5.2 million. And he apparently funneled some of this
pension fund rip-off money out of the country to a Luxembourg
bank -- it is so contended in the *Tribune*. But what they left
out of the story is the apparent connection of Polichemi to Bua,
to Northrop, to the entire situation, of which the Housing
Authority [CHA] pension fund rip-off is only a small part. It is
a *tremendous*, several hundred million dollar scandal, and the
$12 million is just, uh the pension fund has been embezzled is a
small part...


VALENTINE:
Yeah, it's potatoes. O.K. My guest is Sherman Skolnick. You're
hearing all this for the first time. I'm Tom Valentine. This is
*Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

This is Tom Valentine. We are back live. It's *Radio Free
America*. And we're talking with Sherman Skolnick, and he is
filling us in now on the goings-on, of the rip-off, of the
Chicago Housing Authority pension fund for a "measly" $12
million. But pension funds have been ripped-off for a long time
and there's gonna be a real collapse of pension funds shortly!
Unfortunately. We've been talking about that for a long time.


SKOLNICK:
And so *Spotlight* has done the most in bringing that out to the
public.


VALENTINE:
Yes we have.


SKOLNICK:
Uh now another group of details that is involved here, which
we've been working on for some time, involves the CIA "black
budget" [i.e., the part of CIA's budget which is classified] and
the use of savings & loan that are in failing condition. One book
came out on this by a Houston...


VALENTINE:
Peter Brouton(sp?). [CN -- mentioned also in L.J. Davis
interview] And it's an *outstanding* book. Pete was a guest on
this show back when he wrote it.


SKOLNICK:
*The Mafia, The CIA, and George Bush*.


VALENTINE:
Yep.


SKOLNICK:
...found out there's 26 S&Ls, that were actually operated by the
CIA, in Colorado and in Texas. He never got around to the Chicago
end of it. But we've [CCCC] been working on it and he may use
some of our material in an upcoming book.

But there are 3 S&Ls, in Chicago, in the Chicago area, tied in to
the CIA black budget -- which is also involved in this overall
picture that I've been spelling out! The 3 savings and loans are,
Libertyville Savings & Loan (which is a northwest suburb of
Chicago), Olympia Savings & Loan, and Clyde Savings & Loan.
Olympia Savings & Loan had an *unlisted* director, Dr. Earl
Bryan, who is very much mentioned in the Ins...


VALENTINE:
Ho ho ho. That's the man who stole Inslaw!


SKOLNICK:
Right!


VALENTINE:
Yeah!


SKOLNICK:
And unlawfully sold the Inslaw software to foreign intelligence
agencies.

Clyde Savings, a director of it has been congressman Henry Hyde.
And the Resolution Trust Corporation brought an action against
Henry Hyde, claiming multi-million dollar misfeasance. The CIA
angle began to be involved, and the judge in the Henry, uh Henry
Hyde case ordered all proceedings to be impounded. They brought
in a lawyer from the CIA, and the case is proceeding only in
chambers. And the docket shows that there has to be a 10-day
notice before anything is even *considered* to be public! But we
know a lot about it *because*, we have, on our TV show, we have
publicly charged that Henry Hyde, a purported congressman, is
actually the head, the *head* of the CIA's black budget and has
more power than the director of Central Intelligence.

Now I'm sure some of your listeners will immediately come to the
conclusion there's something unconstitutional, because a
*congressman* in the legislative branch is not supposed to be
doing anything in the executive branch, of which the CIA is a
part! And yet *he* is apparently the head of the CIA black budget
-- congressman Henry Hyde. And the case against him in the
federal district court here is being bottled up in chambers! It
is shown on the docket of the case and we've been investigating
that case and we know that they brought in an attorney for the
CIA to work this thing.

So you can see why Chicago is so important...


VALENTINE:
It is.


SKOLNICK:
...the thing, in the CIA's black budget, in the Polichemi case,
in the BCCI case. Apparently the CIA is working their black
budget tricks through Chicago!


VALENTINE:
Well you pointed that out when we went clear back to your very,
very sensational show, on this show, and in *The Spotlight*, when
you said that congressman Henry Gonzalez, the idiot of the
Whitewater hearings but the genius against the Fed [i.e., Federal
Reserve] -- I mean, he *demanded* information on BCCI and the
Banco Lavoro Nacional from Chicago, Illinois, and they wouldn't
give it to him!


SKOLNICK:
By the way, let me just tell a little anecdote that might be [of]
interest.

I and my associates, in September of '92, were in Bua's private
office. By then he was a private lawyer acting as special counsel
to the Inslaw grand jury. He was no longer on the bench.

I ended up in his office and we began talking about Banca
Nazionale del Lavoro, the... BNL. And he says he never heard of
them.

I says, "Well it's been much in the paper about Bank Lavoro
scandal in Atlanta."

He says, "I never heard of 'em."

I says, "Judge..."

He says, "Don't call me 'Judge', Skolnick." He says, "You know me
30 years. Call me 'Nick'."

I says, "Nick. How could you say that you don't know about Bank
Lavoro?"

He says, "I don't."

I says, "They're right downstairs, Judge. Let me take ya right to
'em. THEY'RE RIGHT DOWNSTAIRS OF YOUR OFFICE!!"

He says, "Well, I..." [laughs] He didn't have an answer for
that!! I said, "*How* could you not know that their Chicago
office is right downstairs!? Come on, Judge."

"Call me 'Nick'," he says.


VALENTINE:
Yeah, "Call me 'Nick'." That guy... I told ya this guy *enjoys*
this fight! He's on top of the world; he's not the least bit
afraid of you.


SKOLNICK:
Notice what kind of a fraud he is! He says he never heard of Bank
Lavoro and they're right downstairs of his office! [laughs]


VALENTINE:
Yeah well you see, every time you get a little barb like that, it
just makes him enjoy the game all the more and, I think -- I
don't even *know* the man -- but from the things you've told...

Now. The important part of that story, that you told on the air,
was that you confronted, as a journalist, the people in the
court, the different attorneys for the banks. And you got a
confirmation from them that George Bush and Saddam Hussein were
what?


SKOLNICK:
Were business partners. And I asked the participants in a federal
case, in the back of the courtroom -- I wish we had our video
equipment there. We would have gotten it on video. There was a
case involving Saddam Hussein's secret partners. [Congressman
Henry] Gonzalez's committee were interveners in the case. They
later tried to stop publicity by telling an editor at *Spotlight*
that there was no such case. You remember what happened.


VALENTINE:
Yeah.


SKOLNICK:
We came up with the docket and all the documents.

But the *unlisted* secret partner of Saddam Hussein, the Baghdad
tyrant, was George Herbert Walker book... Bush. {2}. And the
participants in the hearing confirmed it to me. I asked them 3
times. I wanted to be *absolutely* sure. And I used his 4 names:
George Herbert Walker Bush. And they says, "That's right. He's
the partner in oil kickbacks with Saddam Hussein." And
*Spotlight*, and your program, were the only ones to discuss it.
In fact, a few days after that federal hearing (which was in May
of '91), I was on your program with exclusive details.


VALENTINE:
That's right.


SKOLNICK:
The details *now*...


VALENTINE:
We gotta take a final break! My guest is Sherman Skolnick. And as
you can see, a lot of things happen in Chicago and it's good for
us that there *is* a guy like Sherman available to tell us about
it.

I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio Free America*.

[...commercial break...]

All right. We are back. And my guest is Sherman Skolnick. And
this is the final leg of this hour.

Sherman, have we *not* hit anything, of the updated stuff?
Because we don't have a lot of time now.


SKOLNICK:
Well. Let me just summarize it.


VALENTINE:
Where'd you go!?


SKOLNICK:
Uh... Are you there?


VALENTINE:
I... I have something wrong with my phone-set I think.


SKOLNICK:
Can you hear me?


VALENTINE:
All right. Now I can, I think. Speak up.


SKOLNICK:
O.K. But...


VALENTINE:
Ah, there you are. Good. O.K.


SKOLNICK:
Let me just summarize what we tried to cover briefly. Obviously,
in the one-hour period we can't cover all the details.

But you can *see* why the late journalist, Danny Casolaro, called
it "The Octopus". You can see what's happening here. And you can
see why *Bua*, as the special counsel for the Justice Department
to the Inslaw grand jury felt obligated to call what everybody
else that knows anything calls a "murder", he calls it "suicide".

*Also*, you probably can see why some of us believe that White
House aide Vincent Foster, jr., was murdered. Because -- and
we've said it for a year! Because he was trying to tell Clinton,
"Look. There's a murder team in the Justice Department and if you
don't do anything you're gonna get impeached!" Well, instead they
murdered Vincent Foster, and made it look to us as a suicide.

But. By the way. These murder teams specialize in two things:
airplane sabotage, which is a subject that I have spent more than
20 years investigating...


VALENTINE:
*Yes*. And you and I were both involved in that big one in
Chicago that killed E. Howard Hunt's wife, Dorothy.


SKOLNICK:
Right. And...


VALENTINE:
Who was the state judge that blocked that?


SKOLNICK:
Bua!


VALENTINE:
Judge Nicholas Bua. Call me "Nick"! [laughs] O.K. I just wanted
to get that point.


SKOLNICK:
The second thing with this murder team, which operates, according
to Elliott Richardson, in a secret section there, in, with, or
behind O.S.I., in the Justice Department -- they specialize in
*murder*, disguised as suicides. And in Danny Casolaro, and a
number of other situations, a lot of the Inslaw grand jury
witnesses supposedly, one by one, killed themselves. {3}.


VALENTINE:
This is not a secret any longer, because Michael Fuller has said
it on this show. Dave Tompkin, Thomlin(sp?), David Thomlin said
it on this show. The Wayro(sp?) gal, Maria Wayro, the former
police officer, the whistleblower in Washington said this. So
it's coming out, little by little.


SKOLNICK:
But the overall thing is... Let me just tick off briefly who
all's involved.

Apparent bribery of the White House by Northrop, a defense
contractor, apparently through Bua. People that were a part of
Reagan's "Kitchen Cabinet", George K. Pender, Robert Maheu,
Robert Booth Nickols, a CIA explosives expert that was
Riconosciuto's former business partner.

You can see why the late Casolaro called it an "octopus". I mean,
it is an international thing. And the *Tribune*, here in Chicago,
is playing up the thing as simply a $12 million pension fund rip-
off. I mean, and *yet* they put in their story, August 26th, that
this guy Polichemi, who's being held in custody in Fort
Lauderdale, that he's got worldwide connections through
Luxembourg! Which is where BCCI operated through also.

I mean, in other words, they're not...


VALENTINE:
It was right under their nose, but they're not going to see it,
because the powers-that-be will nail them if they try to see it.

Sherman, I want to thank you very much. Again, you've given us
plenty to chew on. And we will stay in touch.

Sherman Skolnick is the guy who started the Committee to Clean Up
the Courts more than 30 years ago. That telephone number for him
is 312-731-1100. You can call at any time. They change the
message 3 times a week.

Sherman, thanks a lot.


SKOLNICK:
Thanks for listening. Thanks for having me.


VALENTINE:
We'll see ya next time.

All right! Here we go again, you see? Things are going [on],
*even* *though* *you* *don't* *get* *'em* *in* *the* *news*! You
don't see it in the newspapers. You don't see it on TV. But it's
happening. That's why you need *Radio Free America* and *The
Spotlight*. That's why I need guys like Sherman Skolnick.

We'll be back! Wide open lines, lot of commentary, next hour.
Right after the news.


-------------------------<< Notes >>-----------------------------
{1} Skolnick actually says "October Massacre" but I am fairly
sure it is really known as the "Saturday Night Massacre".

{2} "...George Herbert Walker book... Bush." "Book" as in police
jargon, "Book him."

{3} These 41 deaths of Inslaw witnesses find parallels in the
Clinton body count (in Arkansas, primarily) and in the deaths of
witnesses connected to the JFK assassination.


--
 Brian Francis Redman    [e-mail]    "The Big C"
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"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."
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(This file was found elsewhere on the Internet and uploaded to the
Radio Free Michigan site by the archive maintainer.

 Protection of
Individual Rights and Liberties. E-mail [e-mail])